History Page 3
WLTI/WJUL/WUML Station History
By the early 1970′s, the Administration had donated a building and capable technical advisors who obtained the best equipment money. This encouraged professionalization. A.V.S. minutes on October 4, 1971 advocated the policy: “Be Professional.” The memo directed that logs for each show were to be filled out completely. Problems of poor engineering were discussed.
The idea, as Steve commented, was to keep the music technically clean. “If the station had good equipment, let’s use it.” That was the philosophy of WLTI in 1971 and is the policy of WJUL in 1985.
This attempt to sound as professional as possible had a tremendous impact on what was played musically. Radio is a communicating device which can influence and educate people. WLTI was not in a position to give the college true educational
programming like WGBH (89.7 FM.) There was no communications major at LTI. The school was basically an engineering school. Students who spent time at WLTI were interested in technical problems, not education programs. As long as the minimums of educational radio were met: news, sports, weather, and a few public announcements, WLTI was free to experiment through a free format of music programming. This philosophy encouraged a musical smorgasbord with which students could educate themselves. WLTI was a lab for experimentations, and the students used that lab to broaden their musical tastes. They created new radio personalities and developed friendships that influenced each other’s feelings. Access to the station inspired the personal confidence that you knew you had but needed a microphone and four hours of airtime to develop.
In a meeting called on September 14, 1972, General Manager Dave Shuker introduced Dick Kenney as a candidate for the position of station advisor.
Dick Kenney, a 1969 graduate of Lowell Tech, became Audio-Visual Director in 1970. He became involved with WLTI because of his association with some of its members and also because his listening area was closely connected with the station’s equipment. There was a lot of swapping: tapes, records, etc. Kenney had no influence over WLTI’s purpose or construction; he came into the middle of it all. He described what an advisor should do: “The main purpose of an advisor is to advise, no dictate advice.” Kenney became the new station advisor in 1972.
Dick recalled the music of the 1960′s: the Beatles invasion, the anti-war protests, all of which seemed to pass LTI by without even a dull yawn coming from the campus students. But times finally caught up with Lowell both politically and musically in the early 1970′s. Dick explained that the Institute was trying to rid itself of the textile school image and started branching off into the computer science and nuclear engineering fields which were more up-to-date technically. Dick stated: “The world got suddenly more important.” Dick described the early operation of WLTI as a: “bunch of kids locked in the basement of what is now a laundry room playing music over the air with a tiny 10 watt transmitter. This prevented the station from expanding and being creative; it just hampered them technically, and musically, the station at times was not with the times.”
WLTI, in the early 70′s was becoming a very important part of the school. The members were all volunteers but when they became 1700 watts and technically “state of the arts,” a new sense of responsibility emerged. As Dick states: “The bigger we got the more important we were.”
The official policy of free form programming was common among other college stations. Dick pointed out that the Administration was leaning towards developing WLTI as an administrative wing like Boston University. Students at WBUR received academic credits and wages; Lowell had no such programs. Therefore the relationship that developed between the radio station and the Administration amounted to an “I scratch your back, you scratch mine,” for example, broadcasting graduation exercises. Dick Kenney became the mediator between the students running WLTI and the Administration.
The music of the early 1970′s was full of messages, and General Manager Dave Shuker, and WLTI members John MacDonald, and Jack Felton all recognized that a new wave of music was out there that needed to be heard. The top 40′s hits were to be found on the AM dial, while WLTI provided an alternative style of music. Dave O’Leary, a management major, began with the station in 1972 and observed Dick Lynch and other people from the 1960′s moving out. A new generation of students were beginning to approach the radio music from the other side, the alternative side.
WBCN (104.1 FM) in Boston was the underground radio station playing all the wild stuff, experimenting, mixing, etc. And as Dick Kenney states, “Alternative programming started to click at the station. Music was experimental and so was our programming.” The technical side hadn’t changed. “To eliminate dead air; no mixing problems” was always the stated goal of the station as well as keeping up the equipment. For example, transmitters had to be tuned.
Technically as Kenney said: “WLTI could have been a nightmare, but Dick Lynch and Steve Goldberg made it a work of art.”
Kenney saw the station as one big electronic toy with the students going in and having fun. The free format of WLTI allowed the student to create his own personal show for an evening. Dick Kenney pointed out: “There was a lot of self-learning, because there were only 18-20 students to fill up 18-20 hours of air-time seven days a week; there wasn’t time to professionally train them, ” but as he pointed out, that was in itself an educational experience.
The early 1970′s were rebellious years and as Dick Kenney commented: “People were more in a protest mode, down with bureaucracy type attitude. People were more into experimenting; drugs individually, it was an era of freedom.” It was this freedom which influenced the type of music that the students at WLTI played. Students were drawn to the radio station Kenney stated, because “it looked like fun.” They were not receiving money, credit, recognition, or anything. They came down purely for the fun of it. What this did for the programming was to give it both a professional and sometimes more importantly a personal quality which Kenney emphasized was “important, creative, and effective.”
In Boston, station WBCN was the model underground radio station and was the main influence on WLTI members. Like WBCN, WLTI had a big potential audience with the technical equipment to provide that audience with a unique sound. Dick Kenney’s philosophy of music was: “you were a composer; instead of notes and a sheet of paper, I worked with songs and a four hour palette, and painted a picture for a night.” His point was that students’ only incentive to participate was the free form philosophy.
As Dick Kenney explained, the Dick Lynchs and Steve Goldbergs who worked and sweated to get the new station together were now graduated and gone. The technical work they did was worthy of any big time operation. The new facilities down at the station meant: “We had a whole new set of responsibilities.” The UPI wire service, for instance, gave WLTI instant access to world events. “If you heard six bells, everything stopped and you just huddled around the machine to read, an assassination of a world leader or WW III or whatever.” People realized that as much fun as it was playing records and having a good time, there was also a real responsibility every time you went on the air.
According to policy and FCC regulations, Dick pointed out, WLTI had to carry public service announcements totaling 2 1/2 minutes every hour. News or weather also had to be read, and transmitters checked every two hours. All this had to be logged and made available to the FCC. The station belonged to the Emergency Broadcast System. This included passwords and code words for broadcasting emergencies like WW III. This was serious business on-air. Obscenities were censored through tape delays, and each on-air person was responsible for this.
Dick Kenney stated there was an effort to have more public/campus events, such as phone-ins with Dean King or lining up sports coverage. “The free form continued to allow WLTI to have people on staff so that things that were supposed to go on the air did.” The students who didn’t want to go on-the-air provided technical manpower to upkeep the station or to do interviews. This gave the students excellent hands-on training and some even became professionals in the field of broadcasting.
The editorial policy at WLTI, Kenney stated, “was not to take sides.” As an example, he used the broadcast of the War of the Worlds by H.G. Wells. “Even fantasy as a lark, put on at Halloween night, can pack a punch!” No religious records were broadcast or midnight Mass. In regards to the political scene of the 1970′s, Dick remembered “We didn’t touch it.” WLTI only read election results from the U.P.I. newswire. The station did not have an investigative reporting team. Nobody wanted to do it. Dick quoted: “We never pushed it because they were all volunteers.” They did live remotes of concerts, sports, graduations, Spring Carnival, etc., so the station was always visible.
Through the efforts of Bob Flagg, General Manager in 1974, Joe Kopycinski provided public educational programming to WLTI. In 1974 the first serious effort was made by the University Library to sponsor educational programming. The name of the project was LACOIN, which means Lowell Area Council of Inter-Library Network. It was a collection of public, private, school, and collegiate libraries in the area that obtained a grant from the Massachusetts Bureau of Library Extension to operate WLTI-FM as a public service radio between the hours of 8:00 AM to 3:00 PM, Monday through Friday. The program was first aired November 18, 1974. Broadcast hours on January 13, 1975 totaled five hours daily 10:00 AM to 3:00 PM again Monday through Friday. The programs consisted of packed public service network shows such as Panorama, Heritage, Focus, and some locally produced shows. The funding was provided by the LSCA grant for the amount of $23,000 and was done on a two year basis. The LACOIN project lasted only two years, then the state government cut the grant from its budget.*
*Information on the LACOIN project can be found in the WUML Business Office*
The programs had a wide variety of different subjects ranging from the Sunshine Hour to Heritage programs which broadcast Greek, Irish, Polish, and Spanish shows. It had a program called “Focus” which dealt with human services. All these were engineered by Jean Bancroft and Don McKean who were engineers paid to run the shows. The only programs to survive the LACOIN project was the Sunshine Hour and Old Time Radio Theater.*
*In 2004, Old Time Radio Theater is the only program on WUML from the LACOIN project.*
The Sunshine Hour, directed at Senior Citizens, was not funded by the state government, but by the Elderly Services of the Merrimack Valley Inc., a non-profit corporation established in 1974 by residents of the Merrimack Valley to provide social services to the elderly. The program was the brainchild of Cliff Choquette, a local Lowell historian. Joe Paradise broadcast the show until he was replaced by Jack Beauvais who answered an article in the Lowell Sun in 1975. As Beauvais explained, Joe was a very popular person in Lowell. Joe dug up a lot of interesting facts about the city. But the Elderly Services felt that the Sunshine Hour needed a little more professional touch and wit to the show. Joe had absolutely no radio experience. On the other hand, Beauvais had extensive experience in broadcasting.
Jack Beauvais had performed as a singer for WEEI in Boston during the 1930′s and then became a comedy writer for Bob and Ray while on CBS in New York. Jack also worked for some of the big bands in the 1940′s and 50′s, and his interviews were full of delightful humor with many quick, light-hearted remarks towards himself. As retired people, Jack and Cliff split up the week alternating the broadcasting duties, and, as Jack recalls, their styles were very different. Jack took charge of the Sunshine Hour because Cliff wanted to spend more time doing volunteer work. This left Jack entirely free to do what he wanted with the show, adding a little music and some humor.
Basically the Sunshine Hour, Jack commented, “brings a little sunshine your way.” The “official voice of the elderly in the Merrimack Valley,” the program discusses issues concerning health, both physical and mental, in addition to housing, transportation, spiritual, financial, and legal information. The interviews with resident guests could range from talks on social security to coping as an “oldster” in today’s world. In between all this information, the show plays the classics of the 1920′s, 30′s, and 40′s. As time passed the show attracted a younger audience. Beauvais attributed this to the fact that “younger people, in their 30′s and 40′s, are interested in our informative programming also. In fact, even the students enjoy the programms.” Jack, along with his two new retired engineers, Bill Bigalow and Mel DeJarge, were paid stipends for their services, with WLTI providing their facilities as a form of in-kind services. The relationship with the station as Jack recalled was excellent. “The turnover is rapid and the boys like us and we like the boys.”
Dick Kenney began to withdraw from WLTI in 1975-76 at the time of the creation of the University of Lowell which offered two additional assets to the radio station: more Liberal Arts students and students in general, roughly double the number. The station’s budget increased from $6,000 in 1975 to $12,000 a year in 1976.
The merger in 1975 drastically altered LTI. It also effected the radio station in several ways. In a report of the Ad Hoc Committee of the University Planning Board, April 1975, three issues were addressed considering the future of the station WLTI: 1) the relationship of the radio station to the University, 2) how the station should be operated, and 3) how the station should be funded.
In 1975, WLTI was operating as a completely volunteer student-run station, part of the A.V.S. organization. Its policy was determined by the studen executive committee with a student General Manager who was responsible to Joe Kopycinski, Advisor of the A.V.S. Society. The final responsibility for its operation rested with President Everett Olsen and the LTI Board of Trustees.
The recomnendation from the Ad Hoc Committee was as follows: The student-operated, and its operation should be consistent with the fundamental purposes and goals of the University. The recommendation of the committee was to move the radio station under the control of the University, but allow it to remain under the Audio-Visual Society during the 1975-76 academic year. After 1976, the committee recomended that the radio station be placed under a separate agency established by the University for the purpose of assisting station personnel with policy and programming.*
*This new agency was never put into operation and WUML is still a student run organization.*
The new agency would include:
- Two students from the radio station, one being the General Manager.
- One student elected at-large from the student body.
- Two members of the Greater Lowell Community
- Two members of the faculty.
- Two members of the Administration.
The Committee furthur recommended that the Board of Trustees initiate and in-depth study of the future of the radio station involving academic credit for working at the station, payments to student staff members, funding, and the application of fundamental University goals to station programming. The call letters would be changed from WLTI to WJUL, and most importantly, budget was increased from the student activity fee.
The budget was always a concern for the Administration. In the late 1970′s as the budget continued to increase, Dean King had problems understanding what all the money was being spent on. The main problem was a lack of communication. Dean King never found out what was going on until it was too late, and WJUL did not make an effort to keep him in touch.
What did the merger do to the philosophy and physical aspects of the station? Philisophically, the music was still “Progressive Alternative Rock.” Physically, the merger did bring in more liberal arts and music students which added a breath of fresh air. Although, before the merger the station had some Lowell State College (L.S.C.) students as station members, but was not well represented.
In 1976, WJUL got its first woman General Manager, Nancy Wolochowitz. Nancy got the position because of the policy that, “those who put in more time down here becomes more involved in what was done down here.” She earned her position as General Manager by going through the ranks. Nancy felt that while she was General Manager that “getting things done for the station was a problem.” She felt that an advisor more closely involved with the station and the Administration could have been better.
But two very important changes did happen in the late 1970′s. One was a physical change within the station, the other was a revival of the sports program which had a tremendous appeal to the students, administration, and the community.
In December 1976, Dave O’leary, Phil Goudreau, and Win Kausch created an ON-AIR studio in the old General Manager’s room which was located in studio C.
The ON-AIR studio was in sub-control room A which was diagonally located to the record library and was very difficult to get to. As Dave O’Leary explained, Dick Lynch and Steve Goldberg were basically technical people who overlooked the fact that students were now capable of announcing and engineering their own show.
As O’Leary remembers, Phil Goudreau, and Win Kaush proposed using Studio C as the new ON-AIR studio. This would make it easier to get the transmitter or the record library. Phil went to Charlie DiPhillipo about the wall problem, while Dave pleaded the case that the arrangement was a safety hazard. So, Dave, Phil, and Win did the redesign of Studio C into the new ON-AIR studio and hired some “Yahoo” construction guys to do the job of putting in the door in between Studio C and the record library. Dave, Phil, and Win took the master-control board completely apart. As Dave remembered: “We had large pieces of the radio station moved into the Studio C room.” It took them six weeks to rebuild the console, telephones, etc. It was the Spring on 1977 when the project was finally completed.
What was the importance of all their efforts? Dave said that the ON-AIR Studio A could now be used as the production studio. The result was a much higher quality sound technology and a better console. This console was replaced seven years later with a brand new one.
The other noteworthy accomplishment was the revival of the sports program. Between 1974-76, there was no live sports being broadcast at WLTI/WJUL. Rich Gingras, a Business Management major, explained how the sports coverage got rejuvinated. The revival began in 1976, when an English major, “Rockin” Bob McCann, came on the scene interested in doing hockey. At that time William “Bucky” Harrison, who was a Sociology Professor at the University, had been broadcasting some play-by-play for about a year. Rockin Bob became interested in doing color commentary. Rich remembered that Ted Michaels, a 50 year old Lowell native, filled in between periods. Tony Janaczek (aka-Tony J.) Kevin Appert, and Dave O’Leary engineered the hockey games. And as Rich described his involvement, “Being a real sports nut, I started to tag along, did the little things, and got really caught up in the level of hockey that was being played by the University.” Broadcasting was the key to putting a good game across over-the-air because I had heard so many of them.”
After the first year in 1978, Harrison became ring announcer and Rockin Bob did the play-by play. WJUL got Cary Pahagihan from the radio station WCGY (Lawrence) to become the new color man. Cary was not a Lowell University student, but as Rich remembered he was a Professional’s Professional. The result was an unbeatable radio team. Along with Tony J., Win Kausch, and Rich Gingras, the five of them brought sports broadcasting back to the campus. They did all the home games and some away games depending on the distance. WJUL was the only local station broadcasting any university sports.
The games were broadcast through a telephone loopline. This “dedicated” line, installed by the telephone company, sent a signal that was picked up at the station by plugging the phone line into the console and rebroadcasting it. Until 1981, they had a permanent loopline installed for the entire season for all home games at Tully Forum in Billerica, and temporary ones for the away games, some as far as Colby College in Maine. They cost fifty dollars per game for installation, in addition to the cost of the phone call to the station, depending on where the game was being played.
What did the sports revival do for the campus? As Rich remembered, it brought publicity to the university and increased listenership of the station. Students who couldn’t make it to Tully Forum or to an away game could turn on their stereo and listen to Rockin Bob say, “Here, Live at the Tully Forum, WJUL presents U-Lowell Chief Hockey.” The Administration and hockey coach Billy Riley were extremely pleased with the broadcasting of the games. In fact, the highlight of the whole sports program as Rich recalled, was the broadcasting of the 1980 NCAA Division II playoffs at Elmira College in New York.
In 1979, Bob McCann gave up the position of Sports Director to Steve Bates. Rich had graduated and enjoyed a lot of spare time which allowed him and Tony J. to really get the sports program rolling. Rich became the Executive Producer and took over the organization from Rockin Bob. Tony J. was going to be responsible for producing; Steve Bates was going to be slowly brought along. WJUL had only enough money to afford looplines for the entire playoffs and could not provide the announcers with room and board in New York. So Rich went to Billy Riley who provided Rich, Cary, and Steve with complete room and board as part of the hockey teams’ budget. This allowed WJUL to broadcast the game in Elmira. With Cary doing the play-by-play, Steve the color, Rich the engineering, and Tony J., the engineering at WJUL, the University enjoyed the tournament. In 1981, the whole hockey program was run by Rich start to finish, and that year U-Lowell won the NCAA Division II. During the tournament, Rich recalled running down to the ice and taping the mike to the microphone and broadcasting the Lowell Athletics Director accepting the trophy. All this live over the air.
In the summer of 1981, Rich got a job working in Brookline and left WJUL. With Rockin’ Bob, Rich, Tony J., and Cary ready to leave the sports program, it was time, as Rich said, “to recruit some new blood.” So, Rich and Tony J. called the “Infamous Meeting.” The results of which added three new members to the sports program: Bill O’Neil, Jim Oliver, and Chuck Janset. The new guys with Tony J. and Rich produced a sports program called Sports Central.
WJUL has increased it’s brodcasts of the home games of basketball and hockey at Costello Gym. Football, which has seen its popularity decline since it became a Division III team, was also being broadcast with some regularity. In 1981-82, the radio station purchased a 450 mhz remote pickup unit witha distance of about 10 miles. This allowed WJUL more mobility and freedom without spending money on expensive looplines for hockey games.
As for its musical philosophy, WJUL continued the alternative style of music. In the mid to late 1970′s Rich recalled that “people down at the station had a pretty well-rounded feel for a variety of music.” The programming from 1976-1980 was still mostly music. The hours for the station varied from about 8:00 in the morning until about 2:00 AM.
In 1976-1980, the public affairs programs began to increase. Being in the city of ethnic diversity, the radio station accepted more foreign language shows, for example Vos Do Atlantico (Voice of the Atlantic) was a program directed by Antonio Manuel Candoso.
Spring Carnival 1978, John Guregian, Brian
Williams, Tom Carbone, Jack Baldwin, Rich
It featured Portuguese music and informative facts about current events being sponsored by the city. In 1979 an Indian program called Ras D’Hanu hosted by Bhaginath Joshi was also broadcast. This program was directed to Asian Indian listeners in Lowell and surrounding communities.
Most of these shows can still be heard on the station today. They provide music and current events on Sundays which are not broadcast on other stations.
Nick Fountas turned WJUL’s record library around as the new Music Director. The record library had probably 500 records. Nick expanded the record library in 1974-76 to 7000 records. How did he accomplish this miracle? He had good relations with record companies and convinced them that WJUL was worth their time, money, and free releases. He also organized the library by instituting an alphabetized and color coded system. Rich recalled that Nick, as “The Operator,” made sure that playlists from the station were being sent to record companies to prove to them you were playing their records.
Rich also remembers Nick working as a music critic for the lowell sun, which got him interviews with bands, some of which were broadcast live by WJUL. When Rich became Music Director, Nick brought him along. Nick went for the big labels, while Rich concentrated on the smaller labels, “which were really coming out with some very inovative and alternative stuff.”
In the early 1980′s the station took another turn towards more rigid programming called block form. The music being played on WJUL, as Tony Janczek recalled was becoming more specialized.
The new Music Director in 1981, Jim McKay, was trying to deal with record companies by obtaining a more “radical, alternative listening audience.” The only problem Jim remembers, “People down at the station only wanted to play Led Zepplein, the Who, or Grateful Dead.” The result, it became difficult for alternative music to get on-air exposure. Pete Rega, General Manager at that time, commented, “We had to twist a few arms, but our station policy was defenetly alternative music. We never really kept a dogwatch attitude over this policy. Students who came down to WJUL knew that.”
WJUL already had some informal block programs inserted into its broadcasts. What Jim McKay suggested was to incorporate a block schedule format, five nights a week. This lead to a discussion in studio A between Jim McKay, Pete Rega, Bill O’Neill, and Paul Bishoff. During the discussion, Jim pushed for a block format Monday thru Friday nights, 6:00-10:00 PM. Jim cam up with the name Spectrum because it reminded him of the spectrum of colors in a rainbow-spectrum of music. Both Pete and Bill responded that listeners would identify Spectrum with some new type of motor oil. But neither one had any objections to the blocked format. Pete liked it because WJUL already had informal block programs already.
Bill felt that Spectrum gave the program “an indentity of its own, a certain uniquness.”
Jim McKay credited Dave Gillis with the promotion of the Spectrum programming by providing promos for the various shows incorporated into Spectrum.
What made up Spectrum? On Mondays listeners would start their week with Some Bizarre: avant guard sounds from Europe and the U.S. Tuesdays was Roots Reggae, and Wednesdays presented the Soul Edition, for people who enjoy contemporary black music. Thursdays listeners could sway into the Blues Deluxe and on Fridays, to start the weekend, the Dichotomy of Dance; electronic dance music of today’s modern society.
In the early 1980′s, the staff of WJUL was becoming more concerned about incorporating more on-campus programming. In a memo on October 16, 1979 entitled “Calling All Clubs,” WJUL offered daily half hour slots to campus clubs interested in going on-air. WJUL would provide the technical support, while the clubs provided the material. This consisted of upcoming club events, guest speakers or special events.
WJUL also continued its phone-in talk show with Wayne Braverman and Tony Janeczek. This public affairs talk show provided guests who were knowledgeable on various topics and encouraged in-coming phone calls from the public. Guests have included Leo King, Santa Claus, Veterans from the Pearl Harbor attack, and even a psychic.
The station also broadcast the University of Lowell Job Fair (11/20/80) for four hours which involved publicizing job opportunities and conducting interviews with several company spokespersons.
WJUL obtained two educational programs which presented the serious listener with national and international issues. Both of them first aired in January of 1980. The first one, Panorama, was produced by the Pacifica Program Service of Los Angeles, CA. This program was aired on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Fridays at 11:00 A.M. for thirty minutes. The show then switched to Sundays at 6:00 P.M. The second program entitled Saluki Radio Network, produced by the southern Illinois University at Carbondale, also covered a variety of national and international issues. This program lasted only until May of that year because the station had to pay for the program and could no longer afford it. Panorama continued because it was provided free of charge.
WJUL also continued its broadcast of the Sunshine Hour and Heritage Program. So WJUL expanded its programs in order to provide more public affairs to its listeners.
In the early 1980′s, WJUL had a much better relationship with the Administration that in prior years. The Audio Visual President Bill O’Neill, who later became Program Director, was very successful in obtaining funds. The additional funds allowed WJUL to continue its maintenance and replacement of equipment. For example, with the extra funds WJUL was able to secure itself a brand new $13,000 dollar console. Bill O’Neill and Tommy Hood ripped out the old console in the summer of 1984, and Jim Olivaer and Paul Bischoff installed the new console in Studio C.
Again it was similar to Dave O’Leary’s reconstruction in 1977, but in a smaller scale. WJUL never went off the air. Instead programming went into Production Studio A until the new console was installed. In addition to the expansion of the record library in 1982, this new construction consisted of Tommy Hood and Jim Oliver knocking down a brick wall; using the bricks as a base for the floor, pouring cement over it and placing a rug. The change also added an additional five to eight feet to the record library.
As Bill explained, Dean King was mainly concerned with the budget and how money was being spent. King had no influence over the programming. One of the biggest problems concerning the relationship between WJUL and the Administration was and still is today is the phone bill. Bill mentioned that in order to talk to promoters, record companies, etc., long distance phone calls had to be made. Dean King felt that some of these phone calls were not necessary. What was finally agreed upon was to incorporate a phone log. This phone log recorded the time, date, length of call, and where the call was made to. The phone bill at the end of the month was them compared with the phone log to determine if any illegal calls were made from the station. Other than that the Administration and WJUL had a pretty successful relationship.